This is bordering on disrespectful, but I've grown to expect these kind of extremely long posts.  Absolutely ridiculous.  However, this one time i took time to read through it and still don't get it....i mean for goodness sake, bias?  'I entertain foolishness from time to time.  World Player of the Year award should go to either; Kaká or Riquelme?  Are you even serious?  Did Riquelme play a whole season?  I guess I'm forced into a long reply too...

Ivory Coast #27 & Serbia & Montenegro #22  Germany - Riquelme had a CORNER for Ayala to head-in!

UEFA's Intertoto Cup - that's not where champions play football and Riquelme had good players around him like Belletti, Sonny Anderson(Ex-Barca), Collocini, Reina, Jose Mari..not to downplay they got to the Semi-finals of the Uefa Cup.

So up til now, the only true statement about Riquelme is "the playmaker who produced five suberb performances in the Copa America, but turned into a flop when it mattered the most", wich is a very unfair statement because, Riquelme wasn't the only player who dissapointed in that Final..TRUE BUT UNFAIR?  hmmm - i remember even you describing Ronaldinho in this manner in the WC - why is it unfair now, is it because it's one of your favourite players?  All of a suddent Messi and Tevez are important?  I thought he wanted EVERYONE to trust him and give him the ball? 

I mean i completely disagree with Zidane being the best player in the WC for 2006, but fans as yourself don't see other players especially if Riquelme-types are playing...If not for Zidane's "shadow" contact that gave him a penalty against the run of play, Italy were looking good for the WC trophy on a canter.  They forgot France only beat Togo in that group!

You've highlighted what everyone knows, that Riquelme will make any second tier team, like villareal better.  However, it must be noted that a few quality players came into Villareal at the same time Riquelme came.  Pelligrini didn't USE Riquelme as a scape-goat, Riquelme blatantly refused to play out of position.

This was about RIQUELME, but I'll indulge some more, i've tortured myself enough already - I ASK - Have you ever seen Ronaldo in his prime, or are you just BLIND?  DID you see Ronaldinho in those 2 seasons?  Have you ever witnessed Romario in full flight? Do you even watch Barcelona games...cause you MUST have missed RIVALDO?  HOWEVER, I MUST let
you know what Brazilians did not consist of 44% of the best players, it was 44% of the WINNERS - this is my reoccurring problem with you and statistics - you MISLEAD!  They are THREE final options, and FAR MORE EUROPEANS came 2nd and 3rd. In any case, Brazil is, with merit, considered as one of the top 2 teams for the last.......years.  It is not in our minds alone, that everyone expects Brazil to produce superior football...It is shown in results and trophies!  Ask around...just remember the last TWO Copa Americas [ 4-1 & 3-0] AGAINST ARGENTINA ranked in the top 5 in the World.  Coffee is ready, wake up & smell it!

Gregory:

 

 This is bordering on disrespectful, but I've grown to expect these kind of extremely long posts.  Absolutely ridiculous.  However, this one time i took time to read through it and still don't get it....i mean for goodness sake, bias?  'I entertain foolishness from time to time.  World Player of the Year award should go to either; Kaká or Riquelme?  Are you even serious?  Did Riquelme play a whole season?  I guess I'm forced into a long reply too...

Ivory Coast #27 & Serbia & Montenegro #22  Germany - Riquelme had a CORNER for Ayala to head-in!

UEFA's Intertoto Cup - that's not where champions play football and Riquelme had good players around him like Belletti, Sonny Anderson(Ex-Barca), Collocini, Reina, Jose Mari..not to downplay they got to the Semi-finals of the Uefa Cup.

So up til now, the only true statement about Riquelme is "the playmaker who produced five suberb performances in the Copa America, but turned into a flop when it mattered the most", wich is a very unfair statement because, Riquelme wasn't the only player who dissapointed in that Final..TRUE BUT UNFAIR?  hmmm - i remember even you describing Ronaldinho in this manner in the WC - why is it unfair now, is it because it's one of your favourite players?  All of a suddent Messi and Tevez are important?  I thought he wanted EVERYONE to trust him and give him the ball? 

I mean i completely disagree with Zidane being the best player in the WC for 2006, but fans as yourself don't see other players especially if Riquelme-types are playing...If not for Zidane's "shadow" contact that gave him a penalty against the run of play, Italy were looking good for the WC trophy on a canter.  They forgot France only beat Togo in that group!

You've highlighted what everyone knows, that Riquelme will make any second tier team, like villareal better.  However, it must be noted that a few quality players came into Villareal at the same time Riquelme came.  Pelligrini didn't USE Riquelme as a scape-goat, Riquelme blatantly refused to play out of position.

This was about RIQUELME, but I'll indulge some more, i've tortured myself enough already - I ASK - Have you ever seen Ronaldo in his prime, or are you just BLIND?  DID you see Ronaldinho in those 2 seasons?  Have you ever witnessed Romario in full flight? Do you even watch Barcelona games...cause you MUST have missed RIVALDO?  HOWEVER, I MUST let
you know what Brazilians did not consist of 44% of the best players, it was 44% of the WINNERS - this is my reoccurring problem with you and statistics - you MISLEAD!  They are THREE final options, and FAR MORE EUROPEANS came 2nd and 3rd. In any case, Brazil is, with merit, considered as one of the top 2 teams for the last.......years.  It is not in our minds alone, that everyone expects Brazil to produce superior football...It is shown in results and trophies!  Ask around...just remember the last TWO Copa Americas [ 4-1 & 3-0] AGAINST ARGENTINA ranked in the top 5 in the World.  Coffee is ready, wake up & smell it!

First of all, 'thank you for at least reading the post' at least you bothered to read it.. But I don't get why you're wondering "i remember even you describing Ronaldinho in this manner in the WC - why is it unfair now, is it because it's one of your favourite players?  All of a suddent Messi and Tevez are important?  I thought he wanted EVERYONE to trust him and give him the ball?", Riquelme performed at the best level in all the matches but the final.. On the other hand Ronaldinho couldn't even manage to make one good performance at the World Cup.. That's why I think it is unfair.. Do you see me criticising Pavel Nedved or Steven Gerrard?? No, I've only criticised Ronaldinho because he was a complete failure at the World Cup, he couldn't manage to make 1 good performance, and he was suposed to be the player of the tournament..

There's no way of justifyng that half of the 'World Player of the Year' awards have gone to Brazilians.. that's ridiculous, where's Thierry Henry, and where's Francesco Totti..

Gregory you need to get through the fact that the Copa Libertadores is as difficult and prestigious as the Champions League. You said that you read the post, and I gave plenty of facts about it.. However you seem to continue forgeting or ignoring them..

Let me be more specific; Cristiano Ronaldo or Riquelme should win the 'World Player of the Year' award.. and I'm dead serious.. Kaká only performed at the Champions League, he was nothing outstanding in Serie A.. On the other hand Riquelme performed at the 'Copa Libertadores' and at the 'Copa America', two very prestigious tournaments. And Cristiano Ronaldo performed just as good as Kaká in the Champions League and he was a very consistent and outstanding player in the EPL. This is why I think that it should be either Cristiano Ronaldo or Riquelme.

Had Kaká performed at the 'Copa America', I would be the first one to say "It's Kaká hands down.. he deserves it", but thats not the case.. And I did say that I'm 100 percent sure Kaká will win the award, it's just that in my opinion he doesn't deserves it because he wasn't the best player individualy speaking..

And Ronaldo, I'm not saying he didn't deserved a World Player of the year award, I'm just saying he didn't deserved 3 of them.. He was a great player at Barca, Half of the time injured in Inter, and he fucked up Real Madrid.. Yeah I have seen Ronaldo at his best and I never liked him that much, not because he wasn't impressive but because I didn't liked his style.. I prefered Rivaldo.

I must say that I know a couple of die-hard-Ronaldo-fans and most of them say that people exagerate how good Ronaldo actually was.. they say people talk about Ronaldo as legendary in his prime when in reality he wasn't much better than last season..

Zidane didn't deserved 3 'World Player fo the Year' awards either..

It's clear you haven't seen Riquelme playing at his best, much more impressive than Rivaldo..

And Romário, I've never said anything against Romário.. Romário was a great finisher, and no I've never seen Romário playing.. I've only seen him on some World Cup 1994 games and some classic Barcelona games, but apart from that I didn't see him with PSV or any other club.

By the way, who was the best player of World Cup 2006?? You told me it's not Zidane, so who is it?

Boca Juniors is not a 'second tier team, like villareal', Boca Juniors is bigger than Barcelona.. and has won more international Cups than Real Madrid.. Riquelme made Boca Juniors the best team in the world, if you want to continue ignoring that.. Well, I don't know how else to writte it.. 

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I do not make long posts just to piss people off, I just think that short posts lead to nothing.. For example you/Gregory keep insisting 'that Riquelme is only good for teams like Villarreal.. when Boca Juniors had his most successful years to date with Riquelme as their essential player', and you keep ignoring the fact that Boca Juniors is one of the biggest clubs in the world.

Dude, no wonder you think that Thierry Henry and Totti deserve something!!! They are just the same kind of flawed geniuses that Riquelme is.... excpet Totti isn't as bad a choker as the others.......Henry has it all...speed, skills, good touch, great shooting technique, vision dribbling....etc etc.. YET he NEVER makes it on his own on the big stage...When there is no Zidane- there's NO Henry........... Actually when there's NO Zidane there's NO France.....

As for the CL being equal to the Copa Libertadores.....well that's just plain laughable. I mean the Copa has great players and great talent and great footall and all but the problem it's not a tournament that Brazilian teams do well in for a variety of reasons. One is that the quality of indigenous brazilian football organisation is lacking due to poor management and financing Economically speaking Brazil is one of the poorest nations in the world with the largest international debt!! 

But ask yourself why is it that inspite of Brazil's having only 13 Copa Libertadores to Argentina's 21 that Brazil has 5 World Cups to Argentina's 3?? The answer is simple- though the quality of the football leagues and orgamisations is lower, Brazil produces Arguably better/more talented  footballers generally.

The WC 2002 was the tournament that Argentina was supposed to be the favourite- having humiliated Brazil en route......What happened?? They got knocked out in the first round The following World Cup they were also highly rated...again what happened.....??? This Copa America they were supposed to slaughter everyone including a Brazil that had no recognised #9.

The other is the best South Americans tend to get Shipped off at an early age to Europe to play under the most advanced of tactics and with the best Europeans in the CL. Imagine that Pirlo admitted that he patterns his free kick technique after Juninho's....Similarly it is evident that Kaka is beginning to swing those visionary passes that Pirlo does with hie eyes closed.

Do the best European footballers play in the Copa Libertadores?? I doubt it....Hence there is not mcuh transfer of technology as there is in Europe......Case in point - David Beckham actually learned to dribble when he went to Madrid . Henry learned to use his pace as a devastating striker in Arsenal etc etc. But there are some South American players who simply couldn't  make as much waves in Europe as they did back home. Cavenaghi, Maxi Lopez Martin Palermo, Rafael sobis (as yet), Nilmar and Robinho were practically gods in their home......after they crossed the pond they all had us wondering "what's the big deal?"

The same goes for Riquelme. Unless the ENTIRE team is built around him and he gets to do as he pleases, he can't perform like he does in Boca and whatever you say it's the truth. At Villareal he ws allowed to do as he pleased ...even to train the way he wanted......he even had the nerve to criticise Maradonna's  comming to the Argentina dressing room to congratulate them after they won vs Serbia

Naturally that sort of *** would never fly at a big club in Europe...so he took the easy, safe way out and went back home........ which he left in the first case because of a contractural dispute....Compare that to Roanldo's leaving Madrid and refusing offers in Brazil and for Big money in the middle east and moving to ANOTHER massiva club like Milan to once again achieve atonement after yet again falling from grace.

And it is this 'winner mentality' that often Separates Brazilian players from their Argentine  counterparts.....is MEssi better than  Robinho?? Hell yeah!! but it was Robinho and NOT Messi who was on fire when it mattered. So you can discredit the WOPY awards as much as you want......there will always be winners surrounded by haters.....but  while the winners go home with trophies the losers always come up with tons of excuses why.

Think Riquelme is criticised?? how about Ronaldinho.....last year he played nearly every imagineable midfield position AND striking position......he scored 21 goals and made a TON of assists and the media STILL says that he had a poor season.....If Ronaldinho doesn't score or COMPLETELY dominate a match we hear BS about him on the decline etc etc......I agree that he was rubbish this WC but the brazilians totally  overracted and even burnt his statue....... Ronaldo has to put up with similar fickleness from so-called fans.....YET they continue to produce and THAT my Riquelme groupie friend is a true great

drucurl:

Dude, no wonder you think that Thierry Henry and Totti deserve something!!! They are just the same kind of flawed geniuses that Riquelme is.... excpet Totti isn't as bad a choker as the others.......Henry has it all...speed, skills, good touch, great shooting technique, vision dribbling....etc etc.. YET he NEVER makes it on his own on the big stage...When there is no Zidane- there's NO Henry........... Actually when there's NO Zidane there's NO France.....

 

As for the CL being equal to the Copa Libertadores.....well that's just plain laughable. I mean the Copa has great players and great talent and great footall and all but the problem it's not a tournament that Brazilian teams do well in for a variety of reasons. One is that the quality of indigenous brazilian football organisation is lacking due to poor management and financing Economically speaking Brazil is one of the poorest nations in the world with the largest international debt!! 

But ask yourself why is it that inspite of Brazil's having only 13 Copa Libertadores to Argentina's 21 that Brazil has 5 World Cups to Argentina's 3?? The answer is simple- though the quality of the football leagues and orgamisations is lower, Brazil produces Arguably better/more talented  footballers generally.

The WC 2002 was the tournament that Argentina was supposed to be the favourite- having humiliated Brazil en route......What happened?? They got knocked out in the first round The following World Cup they were also highly rated...again what happened.....??? This Copa America they were supposed to slaughter everyone including a Brazil that had no recognised #9.

 

The other is the best South Americans tend to get Shipped off at an early age to Europe to play under the most advanced of tactics and with the best Europeans in the CL. Imagine that Pirlo admitted that he patterns his free kick technique after Juninho's....Similarly it is evident that Kaka is beginning to swing those visionary passes that Pirlo does with hie eyes closed.

 

Do the best European footballers play in the Copa Libertadores?? I doubt it....Hence there is not mcuh transfer of technology as there is in Europe......Case in point - David Beckham actually learned to dribble when he went to Madrid . Henry learned to use his pace as a devastating striker in Arsenal etc etc. But there are some South American players who simply couldn't  make as much waves in Europe as they did back home. Cavenaghi, Maxi Lopez Martin Palermo, Rafael sobis (as yet), Nilmar and Robinho were practically gods in their home......after they crossed the pond they all had us wondering "what's the big deal?"

The same goes for Riquelme. Unless the ENTIRE team is built around him and he gets to do as he pleases, he can't perform like he does in Boca and whatever you say it's the truth. At Villareal he ws allowed to do as he pleased ...even to train the way he wanted......he even had the nerve to criticise Maradonna's  comming to the Argentina dressing room to congratulate them after they won vs Serbia

Naturally that sort of *** would never fly at a big club in Europe...so he took the easy, safe way out and went back home........ which he left in the first case because of a contractural dispute....Compare that to Roanldo's leaving Madrid and refusing offers in Brazil and for Big money in the middle east and moving to ANOTHER massiva club like Milan to once again achieve atonement after yet again falling from grace.

And it is this 'winner mentality' that often Separates Brazilian players from their Argentine  counterparts.....is MEssi better than  Robinho?? Hell yeah!! but it was Robinho and NOT Messi who was on fire when it mattered. So you can discredit the WOPY awards as much as you want......there will always be winners surrounded by haters.....but  while the winners go home with trophies the losers always come up with tons of excuses why.

 

Think Riquelme is criticised?? how about Ronaldinho.....last year he played nearly every imagineable midfield position AND striking position......he scored 21 goals and made a TON of assists and the media STILL says that he had a poor season.....If Ronaldinho doesn't score or COMPLETELY dominate a match we hear BS about him on the decline etc etc......I agree that he was rubbish this WC but the brazilians totally  overracted and even burnt his statue....... Ronaldo has to put up with similar fickleness from so-called fans.....YET they continue to produce and THAT my Riquelme groupie friend is a true great

 

 

 

Ronnie's problem is the same, unless the team is built around him, he wont perform. world cup 2006 is the biggest proof of that, yet he escapes your criticism and riquelme gets blamed for everything. Riquelme genius comes from the fact that he literally walks the pitch yet he's as deadly as zidane with his precise passing, sublime vision and ball control.

what you seem to base your argument on (besides his supposed mental weakness which hold no ground) is his lack of pace, dude, if KAKA or Ronnie went to a club like Villareal they wouldnt make the same impact Riquelme made on them. I would love to see if they could withstand the challenge. Only a genius can make a team like Villareal Tick. his first 3 seasons = the best 3 seasons in their entire history.

you can give all the assists in the world, if players dont take their chances, it cant be your fault surely?!! when argentina flopped in the final against brasil, it wasnt riquelme's fault yet you seem to pin point him out the rest of the players who didnt perform; had you watched the game you would have seen how many passes riquelme provided, not to mention he hit the post twice during that match, and last but not least Ayala was the problem from the begining, gifted a goal and was responsible for the other.

as for the winner mentality you're going on about, i tell you now its FLAWED.   your reasonings behind Brasil's failures in copa america are ridiculous. Come up with better ones. Argentinian clubs have won more copa liberatadores than their brazilian counter parts, even in the youth world cups, argentina have the best record in the world (what's your excuse there?), only thing brasil have over argentina is the world cup, argentina are 3 behind.. which is incidently the same difference between the two sides' head to head record -Argentina are only 3 matches down to Brasil in 88 matches.. not a mile stone i assure you. with all your 'winner mentality' stuff, argentina are only 3 down. speak sense will u. 

Teee:

Ronnie's problem is the same, unless the team is built around him, he wont perform. world cup 2006 is the biggest proof of that, yet he escapes your criticism and riquelme gets blamed for everything. Riquelme genius comes from the fact that he literally walks the pitch yet he's as deadly as zidane with his precise passing, sublime vision and ball control.

what you seem to base your argument on (besides his supposed mental weakness which hold no ground) is his lack of pace, dude, if KAKA or Ronnie went to a club like Villareal they wouldnt make the same impact Riquelme made on them. I would love to see if they could withstand the challenge. Only a genius can make a team like Villareal Tick. his first 3 seasons = the best 3 seasons in their entire history.

 

you can give all the assists in the world, if players dont take their chances, it cant be your fault surely?!! when argentina flopped in the final against brasil, it wasnt riquelme's fault yet you seem to pin point him out the rest of the players who didnt perform; had you watched the game you would have seen how many passes riquelme provided, not to mention he hit the post twice during that match, and last but not least Ayala was the problem from the begining, gifted a goal and was responsible for the other.

 as for the winner mentality you're going on about, i tell you now its FLAWED.   your reasonings behind Brasil's failures in copa america are ridiculous. Come up with better ones. Argentinian clubs have won more copa liberatadores than their brazilian counter parts, even in the youth world cups, argentina have the best record in the world (what's your excuse there?), only thing brasil have over argentina is the world cup, argentina are 3 behind.. which is incidently the same difference between the two sides' head to head record -Argentina are only 3 matches down to Brasil in 88 matches.. not a mile stone i assure you. with all your 'winner mentality' stuff, argentina are only 3 down. speak sense will u. 

 Like I said if you're going to say something be prepared to get criticised. "Speak sense?"

You are the one that Just said that Argentina is "only 3 down"  ROLFMAO!!!! I guess by your logic Uraguay is "only three down" or Germany is  "only two behind" as well

Then you procede to rant on with an inane statement like the above text in bold. Don't you know that an ASSIST leads directly to a goal....and if the player hasn't scored it's NOT an assist?? I NEVER faulted Riquelme for WC 06 but in truth he wasn't impressive either. He was even more RUBBISH in the Copa America final.

Nobody doubts his GENIUS/ABILITY what is in question is his value or rating. Denilson was far more talented than Nedved could ever hope to be.....but Denilson is NOWHERE as valuable as Nedved simply because Nedved used the little skills that he had to decide matches and contribute in a large way and when Juve/Czhec republic needed him.

Riquelme is as yet not highly rated as Kaka because he isn't as dependable as is needed to be viewed in the eyes of the footballing world as highly rated...It is also for this reason that for more than three years Sheva was more highly rated than Ronaldo...even though Ronaldo is far more brilliant and skilled than Sheva. Honestly I think Riquelme might even be more skilled than Kaka.....but were I a coach I'd vote for Kaka anyday.......Kaka sweats and bleeds for his team. Kaka helps in defence....Kaka is a pleasure to watch....... Kaka keeps himself fit so that he can be more devastating when combining his speed with stamina. Kaka is also ALWAYS improving his skills AND his vision. The ONLY thing that I can say that Riquelme is proven to be better at is free-kicks which he is indeed a master at.....

As for Ronaldo.....I doubt you are serious when you say that he only performs well in a team built around him....Milan is built around Kaka and he has done well for us so far. Real was built around Zidane and despite all the criticism he recieved he DID score tons of goals for them......this WC 06 (built around ronaldinho)- despite what people say, he did well imho because he collected an award as the silver boot and set a WORLD record as the highest goalscorer EVER!! Sure he might not have lit the tournament afire but to say he was poor is ridiculous!! Infact it is interesting to note that Ronaldo actually had a rough time in ONE of the teams built around him- the '98 team. Whether he was actually sick or he choked in the final he didn't deliver then. the '02 team he was  a role player in a team FULL of stars. To say that a team with Rivaldo, RC and Ronaldinho  was built around Ronaldo is really pushing it. Also keep in mind that even after his disappointment with '06 he never retired from the team and aims to reach again to 2010 to reclaim his honour......what did poor little Riquelme do after 06's dissapointment?

Villareal, as predicted, will probably sell him in December, maybe to Athletico Madrid - hopefully they win the Uefa Cup for that...Great free-kicks for Argentina in the WC qualifiers.

Notable parameters: Age, Trophies(Individual & Teams) and progress developmentally.

Riquelme: June 24, 1978 - 29yrs old

Maradona: October 23, 1960 - 46 yrs old

Pele: October 30, 1940 - 66 yrs old

Ronaldo: September 18, 1976 - 31 yrs old

Individual Achievements: {We give more importance according to prestige & international recognition}

Riquelme: (1) Nominated for World Player of the Year: 2005,2006

(2) Copa Libertadores' MVP: 2007

(3) ARG. & South American Player of the Year: 2001 {Only S. American club players can recieve this}

Maradona: (1) Golden Ball for Best PLayer of Fifa U-20 WC

(2) Top Scorer - Argentine League - Argentina Juniors{1979-1981}

(3) Argentine Footballer of the Year {1979 - 1981,1986}

(4) South American Footballer of the Year {1979, 1986, 1989, 1990, 1992}

(5) Argentine Sports Writers' Sportsman of the Year {1986}

(6) Golden Ball - Fifa WC '86

(7) World Player of the Year {1986}

(8) Goal of the Century (2-1 vs England) {2002} ....Other trivial notables exist!

(9) Argentina Senate - lifetime achievement {2005}

Pele: Special note: Many of these awards were not fully functional or existing at this time due to lack of creditable organisation.

(1) Athelete of the Century - International Olympic Committee {1999}

(2) Footballer of the Century - FIFA {2000}

Ronaldo (1) FIFA World Player of the Year {1996,1997,2002

(2) World Soccer Player of the Year {1996, 1997, 2002}

(3) European Footballer of the Year {1997, 2002}

(4) Uefa MVP {1998}

(5) Best Forward - Uefa {1998}

(6) European Golden Boot {1997}

(7) Copa America - Golden Boot {1999}

(8) La Liga - Pichichi {1997, 2004}

(9) Eredivisie - Leading Scorer {1995}

(10) Intercontinental Cup - MVP {2002}

(11) Golden Foot Award - Most WC goals {2006}

Club Achievements: { Ignore whether or not they were the major influence given the weight of these players}

Riquelme: (1) Copa Libertadores - Boca Juniors {2000, 2001, 2007}

(2) UEFA Intercontinental Cup - Boca Juniors{2000} & Villareal {2004}

(3) Argentine Apertura Championship - Boca Juniors {2000}

(4) Argentine Championship {1998,1999}

(5) Fifa WC - U20 {1997}

Maradona: (1) Boca Juniors - Argentine Championship {1981}

(2) Copa Del Rey & Spanish Super Cup - Barcelona {1983}

(3) Serie A & Coppa Italia - Napoli {1987}

(4) Serie A top scorer - Napoli { 1988}

(5) Uefa Cup - Napoli {1989}

(6) Serie A & Super Cup - Napoli {1990 & 1991}

(7) Fifa WC - U20 {1979}

(8) Fifa WC - {1986} ...runner-up in 1990

Pele: (1) Campeonato Paulista: Santos {1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1973}

(2) Intercontinental Cup: {1962,1963}

(3) There are numerous other existing trophies at club level which i think is best to leave out now.

(4) Fifa WC {1958,1962, 1970}

Other trophies existed then, that do not exist anymore and are not worthwhile competitions...

Ronaldo (1) Brazilian Cup - Cruzeiro {1993}

(2) Dutch Cup - PSV {1996}

(3) Cup Winners' Cup & Spanish Super Cup - Barcelona - {1996,1997}

(4) Uefa Cup - Inter Milan {1998}

(5) Intercontinental Cup, La Liga, Spanish Super Cup - Real Madrid {2002, 2003, 2003}

(6) Fifa WC {1994, 2002} Runner-up {1998}

(7) WC: All-time goalscorer, Bronze Boot, Silver Ball, Golden Boot, Golden Ball

(8) Confederations Cup {1997}

(9) Copa America {1997, 1999}...Olympic Games 3rd place?

What I especially find especially startling is that Ronaldo was involved in this potentially career ending injury at 26, between 1999 & 2002, missing approximately 2 full seasons of club football, returned to win the WC with the Golden Boot.

Conclusion: Given the use of these players as possible Geniuses, it can be seen minus one or two trophies like Ronaldo's 1st WC, that Riquelme has been out-performed by at least twice the amount of awards, trophies and general recognition. The use of South Americans was deliberate! However, Riquelme does compare somewhat equitably with players like Redondo, Carlos Tevez and even Adriano, who are considered very good players indeed. As it pertains to being underrated? Just can't be, since he's been duly given his recognition when the time has arisen. Nonetheless, given Enthusiast's and Teee's, in particular, wanting to give him more than he achieved while healthy and fit, along with the fact that Riquelme doesn't compare developmentally to Ronaldo, Pele and Maradona who struct their stuff from 16 &17 yrs old.

winning trophies does not determin wether or not you're a genius. But if we do sumbit to your theory then how can Riquelme be compared with Adriano and Ridondo when he's won more trophies than both? see what i mean about your biases? perhaps not.

For a club like villareal to go on and become 3rd in la liga is not something that can be attributed to 1 player, yet most pundits single out Riquelme for this.. not to mention guiding them to the semi final of the champions league with his perfomances, not to mention intertoto cup, or the semi final of the UEFA cup.

firstly, To compare Maradona and Pele to Riquelme is inappropriate, these 2 are LEGENDS, Riquelme hasnt even retired yet so relax.

Ronaldo played for great clubs in Inter, Barca, Madrid, and AC.. surrounded by world class talent.. compared with poor Riquelme who only had 1 season with Barca (well documented he was never given a chance), his achievments with Boca are COMPLETELY ignored by you.. then Villareal.. for a club like Villareal to go as high as 3rd in La liga is something of an achievement that record books dont mention; RIQUELME'S influence is the main reason for that. Maybe if Riquelme played for a massive club, surrounded by world class talent as Ronnie, Kaka, Ronaldo etc, he would have won alot more, but he didnt, not because he's not good enough, it's because he's unlucky- In my opinion Madrid is the club in desperate need for a play maker, but Madrid's policy is more geared towards marketing than buying talent.. and lets face it, Riquelme isnt the most attractive of players, he's not a product that can be marketed unlike Ronaldo, Ballack, Kaka, or Beckham. So there are lots of factors for a club not choosing to buy a world class talent, but in way does it mean a player lacks class; having said that, Manchester United wanted to buy him but HE refused, then they bought Carrick.

as for individual awards, if you consider Fifa World player of the year to be credible/reflective/accurate, then i feel for you. in 2005 Frank Lampard was officially the second best player in the world.. Lampard isnt even a top 30 player.

drucurl:

Teee:

 

 

Ronnie's problem is the same, unless the team is built around him, he wont perform. world cup 2006 is the biggest proof of that, yet he escapes your criticism and riquelme gets blamed for everything. Riquelme genius comes from the fact that he literally walks the pitch yet he's as deadly as zidane with his precise passing, sublime vision and ball control.

what you seem to base your argument on (besides his supposed mental weakness which hold no ground) is his lack of pace, dude, if KAKA or Ronnie went to a club like Villareal they wouldnt make the same impact Riquelme made on them. I would love to see if they could withstand the challenge. Only a genius can make a team like Villareal Tick. his first 3 seasons = the best 3 seasons in their entire history.

 

you can give all the assists in the world, if players dont take their chances, it cant be your fault surely?!! when argentina flopped in the final against brasil, it wasnt riquelme's fault yet you seem to pin point him out the rest of the players who didnt perform; had you watched the game you would have seen how many passes riquelme provided, not to mention he hit the post twice during that match, and last but not least Ayala was the problem from the begining, gifted a goal and was responsible for the other.

 as for the winner mentality you're going on about, i tell you now its FLAWED.   your reasonings behind Brasil's failures in copa america are ridiculous. Come up with better ones. Argentinian clubs have won more copa liberatadores than their brazilian counter parts, even in the youth world cups, argentina have the best record in the world (what's your excuse there?), only thing brasil have over argentina is the world cup, argentina are 3 behind.. which is incidently the same difference between the two sides' head to head record -Argentina are only 3 matches down to Brasil in 88 matches.. not a mile stone i assure you. with all your 'winner mentality' stuff, argentina are only 3 down. speak sense will u. 

 

 Like I said if you're going to say something be prepared to get criticised. "Speak sense?"

You are the one that Just said that Argentina is "only 3 down"  ROLFMAO!!!! I guess by your logic Uraguay is "only three down" or Germany is  "only two behind" as well

 

Then you procede to rant on with an inane statement like the above text in bold. Don't you know that an ASSIST leads directly to a goal....and if the player hasn't scored it's NOT an assist?? I NEVER faulted Riquelme for WC 06 but in truth he wasn't impressive either. He was even more RUBBISH in the Copa America final.

Nobody doubts his GENIUS/ABILITY what is in question is his value or rating. Denilson was far more talented than Nedved could ever hope to be.....but Denilson is NOWHERE as valuable as Nedved simply because Nedved used the little skills that he had to decide matches and contribute in a large way and when Juve/Czhec republic needed him.

Riquelme is as yet not highly rated as Kaka because he isn't as dependable as is needed to be viewed in the eyes of the footballing world as highly rated...It is also for this reason that for more than three years Sheva was more highly rated than Ronaldo...even though Ronaldo is far more brilliant and skilled than Sheva. Honestly I think Riquelme might even be more skilled than Kaka.....but were I a coach I'd vote for Kaka anyday.......Kaka sweats and bleeds for his team. Kaka helps in defence....Kaka is a pleasure to watch....... Kaka keeps himself fit so that he can be more devastating when combining his speed with stamina. Kaka is also ALWAYS improving his skills AND his vision. The ONLY thing that I can say that Riquelme is proven to be better at is free-kicks which he is indeed a master at.....

As for Ronaldo.....I doubt you are serious when you say that he only performs well in a team built around him....Milan is built around Kaka and he has done well for us so far. Real was built around Zidane and despite all the criticism he recieved he DID score tons of goals for them......this WC 06 (built around ronaldinho)- despite what people say, he did well imho because he collected an award as the silver boot and set a WORLD record as the highest goalscorer EVER!! Sure he might not have lit the tournament afire but to say he was poor is ridiculous!! Infact it is interesting to note that Ronaldo actually had a rough time in ONE of the teams built around him- the '98 team. Whether he was actually sick or he choked in the final he didn't deliver then. the '02 team he was  a role player in a team FULL of stars. To say that a team with Rivaldo, RC and Ronaldinho  was built around Ronaldo is really pushing it. Also keep in mind that even after his disappointment with '06 he never retired from the team and aims to reach again to 2010 to reclaim his honour......what did poor little Riquelme do after 06's dissapointment?

OH im sorry, but i didnt realise i was speaking to a solicitor; to ME an assist is when a play maker (or any other player) CREATES  a good chance to ANOTHER player but the OTHER player FAILS to SCORE. forgive my english, it is my second language after all.

as for the 3 down business, YES, Argentina is only 3 down in the head to head with Brasil.. which isnt much, as for world cups, 3 down to me isnt much either and can be recovered, and as an argentina fan i tell you that 3 isnt a milestone. If you put together all the tournaments including the youth world cup, then its Brasil that needs to do the chasing kid. 3 world cups dont really bother me, and brasil arent invincibles.

i was under the impression you questioned Riquelme's ability, but you dont so there's nothing else. But you do seem to question the player when the team loses as if he was the manager, against germany he was substituted, in other words, while he was on the pitch Argentina did not lose during the tournament. Against Brasil in copa it was Ayala and the entire backline that was the problem, Argentina as a whole didnt play well i agree, but to pin point it on Riquelme is unfair and only serves to show your bias. question i asked in my post was; could a player like Kaka, (Ronnie, C.Ronaldo etc)make a team like Villareal tick? non of the players out there in the world today are as creative as Riquelme, thats the answer.

As for ronaldo, when he was playing for Barca he was the best in the world, but never showed the kind of BRILLIANCE he showed whilst playing for Barca.. he was unlucky with injuries. You could see it in the world cups he had, wasnt as brilliant in 2006 than 98. Scoring 3 goals in a world cup for a world class striker isnt good enough, 2 against japan and 1 against Ghana.. i like ronaldo, he was a genius during his prime, but not anymore. I hope he proves me wrong.

Teee:

 OH im sorry, but i didnt realise i was speaking to a solicitor; to ME an assist is when a play maker (or any other player) CREATES  a good chance to ANOTHER player but the OTHER player FAILS to SCORE. forgive my english, it is my second language after all.

as for the 3 down business, YES, Argentina is only 3 down in the head to head with Brasil.. which isnt much, as for world cups, 3 down to me isnt much either and can be recovered, and as an argentina fan i tell you that 3 isnt a milestone. If you put together all the tournaments including the youth world cup, then its Brasil that needs to do the chasing kid. 3 world cups dont really bother me, and brasil arent invincibles.

i was under the impression you questioned Riquelme's ability, but you dont so there's nothing else. But you do seem to question the player when the team loses as if he was the manager, against germany he was substituted, in other words, while he was on the pitch Argentina did not lose during the tournament. Against Brasil in copa it was Ayala and the entire backline that was the problem, Argentina as a whole didnt play well i agree, but to pin point it on Riquelme is unfair and only serves to show your bias. question i asked in my post was; could a player like Kaka, (Ronnie, C.Ronaldo etc)make a team like Villareal tick? non of the players out there in the world today are as creative as Riquelme, thats the answer.

NO- an assist- particularly the types entusiasta has been quoting are PASSES that lead DIRECTLY to goals. Three World Cups isn't much??? Are you insane?? Three WC's means TWELVE YEARS OF WORLD DOMINATION!!!!!!!!! Nobody gives a *** about how many Copa Cups you've won.....those are regional titles.....the WC is you vs the World.....Isn't all this stuff obvious???

I NEVER said that brazil are invincibles....they actually have many ***/overrated players (cough*cough*Wagner Love*cough)

But you HAVE to respect a team that manages to win FIVE titles........especially when you consider that's two or more than the likes of Argentina, Germany, England, France, Portugal, Mexico, Holland and Spain

Teee:

As for ronaldo, when he was playing for Barca he was the best in the world, but never showed the kind of BRILLIANCE he showed whilst playing for Barca.. he was unlucky with injuries. You could see it in the world cups he had, wasnt as brilliant in 2006 than 98. Scoring 3 goals in a world cup for a world class striker isnt good enough, 2 against japan and 1 against Ghana.. i like ronaldo, he was a genius during his prime, but not anymore. I hope he proves me wrong

Well let's see :

Ronaldo: 3 goals; Henry : 3 goals; Crespo 3 goals; Adriano 1goal; Sheva 3 goals; Torres 3 goals; Drogba 1 goal; Toni 2 goals; Gila 1 goal; Pippo 1 goal; RVN 1 goal; Totti : 1 goal; Klose 5 goals

Out of that list which striker other than Klose scored more...would you then say that Klose was the only world class striker in the WC which was very defensive?? Add this to the fact that Ronaldo was MORE than ten Lbs overweight and I'd say he wasn't all that bad playing on a disorganised Brazil team with a badly misfiring Ronaldinho and I distinctly one of his goals was incorrectly recalled for offside and he was also carded

Gregory:

 

 

 

Notable parameters: Age, Trophies(Individual & Teams) and progress developmentally.

Riquelme: June 24, 1978 - 29yrs old

Maradona: October 23, 1960 - 46 yrs old

Pele: October 30, 1940 - 66 yrs old

Ronaldo: September 18, 1976 - 31 yrs old

Individual Achievements: {We give more importance according to prestige & international recognition}

Riquelme: (1) Nominated for World Player of the Year: 2005,2006

(2) Copa Libertadores' MVP: 2007

(3) ARG. & South American Player of the Year: 2001 {Only S. American club players can recieve this}

Maradona: (1) Golden Ball for Best PLayer of Fifa U-20 WC

(2) Top Scorer - Argentine League - Argentina Juniors{1979-1981}

(3) Argentine Footballer of the Year {1979 - 1981,1986}

(4) South American Footballer of the Year {1979, 1986, 1989, 1990, 1992}

(5) Argentine Sports Writers' Sportsman of the Year {1986}

(6) Golden Ball - Fifa WC '86

(7) World Player of the Year {1986}

(8) Goal of the Century (2-1 vs England) {2002} ....Other trivial notables exist!

(9) Argentina Senate - lifetime achievement {2005}

Pele: Special note: Many of these awards were not fully functional or existing at this time due to lack of creditable organisation.

(1) Athelete of the Century - International Olympic Committee {1999}

(2) Footballer of the Century - FIFA {2000}

Ronaldo (1) FIFA World Player of the Year {1996,1997,2002

(2) World Soccer Player of the Year {1996, 1997, 2002}

(3) European Footballer of the Year {1997, 2002}

(4) Uefa MVP {1998}

(5) Best Forward - Uefa {1998}

(6) European Golden Boot {1997}

(7) Copa America - Golden Boot {1999}

(8) La Liga - Pichichi {1997, 2004}

(9) Eredivisie - Leading Scorer {1995}

(10) Intercontinental Cup - MVP {2002}

(11) Golden Foot Award - Most WC goals {2006}

Club Achievements: { Ignore whether or not they were the major influence given the weight of these players}

Riquelme: (1) Copa Libertadores - Boca Juniors {2000, 2001, 2007}

(2) UEFA Intercontinental Cup - Boca Juniors{2000} & Villareal {2004}

(3) Argentine Apertura Championship - Boca Juniors {2000}

(4) Argentine Championship {1998,1999}

(5) Fifa WC - U20 {1997}

Maradona: (1) Boca Juniors - Argentine Championship {1981}

(2) Copa Del Rey & Spanish Super Cup - Barcelona {1983}

(3) Serie A & Coppa Italia - Napoli {1987}

(4) Serie A top scorer - Napoli { 1988}

(5) Uefa Cup - Napoli {1989}

(6) Serie A & Super Cup - Napoli {1990 & 1991}

(7) Fifa WC - U20 {1979}

(8) Fifa WC - {1986} ...runner-up in 1990

Pele: (1) Campeonato Paulista: Santos {1958, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968, 1969 and 1973}

(2) Intercontinental Cup: {1962,1963}

(3) There are numerous other existing trophies at club level which i think is best to leave out now.

(4) Fifa WC {1958,1962, 1970}

Other trophies existed then, that do not exist anymore and are not worthwhile competitions...

Ronaldo (1) Brazilian Cup - Cruzeiro {1993}

(2) Dutch Cup - PSV {1996}

(3) Cup Winners' Cup & Spanish Super Cup - Barcelona - {1996,1997}

(4) Uefa Cup - Inter Milan {1998}

(5) Intercontinental Cup, La Liga, Spanish Super Cup - Real Madrid {2002, 2003, 2003}

(6) Fifa WC {1994, 2002} Runner-up {1998}

(7) WC: All-time goalscorer, Bronze Boot, Silver Ball, Golden Boot, Golden Ball

(8) Confederations Cup {1997}

(9) Copa America {1997, 1999}...Olympic Games 3rd place?

What I especially find especially startling is that Ronaldo was involved in this potentially career ending injury at 26, between 1999 & 2002, missing approximately 2 full seasons of club football, returned to win the WC with the Golden Boot.

Conclusion: Given the use of these players as possible Geniuses, it can be seen minus one or two trophies like Ronaldo's 1st WC, that Riquelme has been out-performed by at least twice the amount of awards, trophies and general recognition. The use of South Americans was deliberate! However, Riquelme does compare somewhat equitably with players like Redondo, Carlos Tevez and even Adriano, who are considered very good players indeed. As it pertains to being underrated? Just can't be, since he's been duly given his recognition when the time has arisen. Nonetheless, given Enthusiast's and Teee's, in particular, wanting to give him more than he achieved while healthy and fit, along with the fact that Riquelme doesn't compare developmentally to Ronaldo, Pele and Maradona who struct their stuff from 16 &17 yrs old.

Gregory I like to discuss football, I really do.. But I don't like discussing rubish like the one you posted there.. Riquelme like Carlos Tevez?? Dude Riquelme is a legend, Carlos Tevez haves a long way to go to make it there..

The fact that you compared one of the most overrated players ever - Adriano with Riquelme leaves me with no doubt that you have absolutely no idea of what's good football..

As I said beforore. Pelé= 2 Copa Lbertadores in 14 years.. Maradona= none Copa Libertadores in 8 years.. Zico= 1 Copa Libertadores in 16 years.. Romário= none Copa Libertadores in 9 years.. Riquelme= 3 Copa Libertadores in 4 1/2 years, had he played for at least 8 years he would've broken all the records.. However Riquelme's not like that, he isn't the kind of player who's motivated to brake records.. he just likes to play football..

Ronaldo is a washed up player, he's injury prone, and he doesn't have anything else to prove.. this is why Ronaldo is finished.. And Ronaldo in his prime was a player who played for himself.. he wasn't a team player, and most of his teams were built around him.. And I must say 'builted with the best material': Rivaldo, Zidane, Roberto Carlos, Luis Figo, Roberto Baggio, etc.. etc..

Comparing Ronaldo with Riquelme is ridiculous and impossible.. two completely different players.. One can make any team play good football.. the other never proved himself in a modest club like Villarreal..

And please do not make ridiculous statements like "PSV is a modest club like Villarreal", becasue PSV is much much bigger than Villarreal..

Saying Riquelme is not a genius comes only from medicre football fans who do not know what good football is..

Hell, Gregory even went and compared Riquelme with Denilson, Gregory with all due respect; "are you really that retarded!!, or just very stubborn.."

Why is Riquelme the best in the world?? Unlike you, I answer the questions asked of me.. And I answer them clearly and with facts.. Unlike you/Gregory - you have never answered a single question.. you just ignore them, and I found it disrespectful.. Anyways, you want the answer to that question, you'll find it in 'FIFA World Player of the Year awards..' thread.

Gregory and drucurl continually contradict themselves.. for ex.drucurl; "Consider also that Kaka plays WHATEVER attacking position he is required to…", of course this is drucurl's opinion..

Teee you're my favourite poster of 'goal community'.. because you post your statements based on true facts and reasonable opinions.. you post some good worth-while posts unlike Gregory and drucurl..

 Proffessional critics on Kaká's performance against Colombia; "Kaká (5) – The Rossoneri looked out of place and frustrated against Colombia, even seeing yellow for his protests to the ref. Kaká seemed to be hemmed in by Dunga’s insistence on fielding him where he doesn’t feel comfortable: stuck to the right side of midfield of pushed up with his back to the goal as a striker."

I guess Kaká doesn't like to play out of position either.. He looked very frustrated through out the game, and his performance was very embarrasing.. So much for the 'World Player of the Year", and he can only manage to perform for Brazil half of the time - out of 10 games, he consistently plays 5 good ones and 5 embarrasing performances like his last display.. It reminded me a lot of the World Cup 2006..

Ronaldinho and Robinho both received a '4' on their performance.. And to think that Riquelme scored the first goal against Colombia and after that orquestrated Colombia's thrashing in the Copa America.. This is why Pelé says "we used to have players like Riquelme", even the great Pelé acknowledges that classic # 10's are dissapearing.. Pelé also played with the same principle has Riquelme, that is "It's not the player who must run in football, it's the ball."

And when I posted the 'longest post ever', and I honestly say it because I've never seen a longer post than mine in the goal community.. drucurl and Gregory missunderstood the post, my intention wasn't to disrespect Pelé or Maradona.. My intention was to give the 'Copa Libertadores' some justice as the record is that the Copa Libertadores Champions have won over the Europen Champions League Champions.. South American Champions have won over European Champions 25-21, it is not by much but it's well recorded in history and it is a lead of 4 games.. I don't understand how some people are stupid enough to insist with "the Champions Leagues is superior to the Copa Libertadores.. the Champions League is the most important competition in club football..".. that's proved wrong by history itself..

And in the last 6 years the Club World Cup has been won by Copa Libertadores Champions 4 times, and by Champions League Champions 2 times.. it looks like the record is going to keep going the same way..

Teee you said that 'had Riquelme played for big teams like Ronaldo, Kaká, etc.. he could've won a lot more'... Well, I do not only think so, I'm sure of it, just look at his record with Boca Juniors.. It's unprecedented - no one apart from Riquelme has won 3 Copa Libertadores in 4 1/2 years of playing in South American football, or 1 Copa Libertadores after playing for just 2 years, or 2 Copa Libertadores after just 3 years.. and in the process he totally dominated Del Bosque's Real Madrid in 2000.. Riquelme would make Kaká look like a flop.. Riquelme would prove a headache in the Champions League.. But big-European clubs are run by incompetent fools who prefer marketing before talent.. Moratti!! open your fucking eyes..

 By the way I wanted to see what you thought about the 'World Player of the Year' award.. I made a World Player of the Year award thread to discuss it.. I would aprecciatte if you could take part in it.. I posted all the stats of last season and I think you'll find some of them surprising.. Anyways the name of the thread is 'FIFA World Player of the Year awards..'

Lastly, Teee I think you'll find this very interesting.. And I hope drucurl and Gregory learn something from the best player of all times.. It was based on Johan Cruijff's book "My footballers and me" - the best player of all times in my opinion and definitely the smartest player of all time - it was written by Sergio Levinsky an Argentine journalist, and one of the best football journalist around, he saw Maradona on the flesh.. Here goes:

                                Riquelme and the praise of the slowness:

On the great book of Johan Cruijjf, "My footballers and me", the ex legendary Dutch forward affirms that football "is a sport of lazy players" and he explains the definition that if well it is a collective sport that kept modernizing and changing like all aspects of life, football keeps maintaining the idea that the ideal speed for playing it is "juggling, not running" and he puts as his example Pelé. "O Rei" was an atlethe, in the sense that he used all of his body when playing. He jumped well, headed well, kicked the ball well from all distances, he defined perfection.. but he runned very few times. And is logical, because in a sport of dominance of a ball with the feet, the more speed, the less time for thinking. The brake, the rithim, the change of speed, the head up and the change of tempo, this are fundamental becasue on the contrary, like someone said once, "Then bring me Ben Johnson and I'm a sure champion". But football is not athletism. It's not running. Because if not, it would all be too easy. The thing that's got to be administrated is a ball.

Without a doubt this was Riquelme's Cup and another proof that it is not about a slow player, antipatic, almost serious, like once he said he was more similar to Zidane than Ronaldinho. The happiness appeared where it had to appear, on the pitch and not before or later.

Whe've said it before and we say it again: Román haves a speed and an estetic very similar to Pelé's. "It's not the player who must run in football, it's the ball." On the contrary, with Carl Lewis any team would win a title. But there's a problem: this is football, people. And it's about a collective sport, with physical pressure, and one ball. And the one who administrates it better haves more chances of winning. And who keeps it the most, haves more chances of securing a good result. It is elemental, but in times of such confusion, better recorde it or remember it.

Maradona and Riquelme are, or were, two of the biggest cracks in football, and everyone who got a chance of enjoying them, be it present or past, if we love football, we should be happy to have seen such a players.

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 I hope no one goes against the one and only Johan Cruijff.. becasue that would be ridiculous, Cruijff knows a lot more about football than any of us.. And then there's also Pelé "no one is faster than the ball..".. Two of the best players of all-time thought football wasn't about running with the ball...